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Post by The New Zealand Dragon on Mar 18, 2009 4:56:14 GMT -5
No the some more equal than others wasnt serious. I will answer more later as im tired
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Post by spyder on Mar 18, 2009 5:22:49 GMT -5
Liam I think you're basing your knowledge a little too firmly on the view that torture and the death penalty are justifiable because they're performed on criminals. 'Bad' people, so to speak. When really there is a flaw in this logic.
Everyone makes mistakes, it's just human nature. Therfore, in theory, judicial systems make mistakes. People can be released from prison if they are wrongly sentenced, where as the death penalty is irreversible. As a result, there are times when people are sentenced to their death for a crime they didn't commit.
That's something that cannot be undone. Sure, having to spend time in prison for a crime you didn't commit would suck too, but at least you didn't lose your life in the process. Sure, I understand that these situations are highly unlikely, but if you take into account the number of countries still enforcing the death penalty there are and the number of times they use this method within a year, it really does add up.
And really, as I said before, if the death penatly and torture methods are allowed there are going to be people they abuse their use of them. It's happening around the world right now!
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Post by lildevil92 on Mar 18, 2009 5:34:01 GMT -5
Of course judicial systems make mistakes, but most of the time, the mistake concerns a crime of lesser value.
Like you said, the chances of sending the wrong person to jail is unlikely, and if you think about it, what are the chances of handing down the wrong person a death sentence? Even more unlikely, almost improbable.
Where around the world? The uncivilised countries? People get the death sentence for being gay there, I don't think we should worry too much about what happens down there, there have been attempts to civilise the third world nations, and it failed.
Oh, and btw, your mum. =D
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Post by spyder on Mar 18, 2009 5:43:43 GMT -5
My point is not to say "Oh my god, so many innocent people have been killed!" I'm just saying that there is a flaw in the death penalty in the fact that it is irreversible, and if a case just so happens to present itself where an innocent is killed that can't be undone.
Also, I don't think it's fair to say that just because past attempts to help uncivilised countries have failed we should give up all together. If that attiude was applied by all of our world leaders we'd be pretty screwed.
Oh yeah and... Your face. D:
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Post by lildevil92 on Mar 18, 2009 5:48:23 GMT -5
So we should get rid of the death penalty all together because there is a minute chance that we kill an innocent person?
I said we shouldn't worry too much. Of course we should try to help, but we shouldn't make that big of a deal about it.
=O You...'re in love with Ash. Oh sh*t. =D
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Post by spyder on Mar 18, 2009 5:59:14 GMT -5
Saying something like that really is the equivalent of going on an airplane saying "Oh, it's okay, we don't need to go through the safety precautions. There's like a one in a billion chance that these things crash." Sure, most of the time you'll get through the flight safely... But not always.
And I think if anything we should make a bigger deal about it. Civilised nations like America are at least attempting to use the death penalty in moral sense. But third world countries are handing out death sentences like junk mail. That's really not good at all.
...
I can haz cheeseburger?
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Post by The Italian Dragon on Mar 18, 2009 6:00:19 GMT -5
^ Example ? GHB or a sxit like this. It's what is called in France the "raping drug" because mostly of the womens who get raped have , without their notice, have ate it. But for drugs who can make someone haveing sex, well alcohol, alcohol is a drug. After that inf you know another one, tell me.
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Post by lildevil92 on Mar 18, 2009 6:04:00 GMT -5
^ Example ? GHB or a sxit like this. It's what is called in France the "raping drug" because mostly of the womens who get raped have , without their notice, have ate it. But for drugs who can make someone haveing sex, well alcohol, alcohol is a drug. After that inf you know another one, tell me.
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Post by spyder on Mar 18, 2009 6:06:55 GMT -5
^ Sorry... what?
Anyway, I actually think the chance of an innocent person being convicted is higher than what we give it credit for. You mentioned drugs, Italian, well think about how sus things are in airports nowadays. You can't leave a bag unattended for five minutes without there being a risk of someone planting something in it. And if your in a country with a strict drug policy it's straight to the electric chair for you, and for what? One moment of carelessness?
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Post by superdoglac on Mar 18, 2009 16:49:04 GMT -5
I actually had a class debate on this last week.
I'm personally against the death penalty. I don't believe a human has the right to take away another's life. I mean, the punishment for killing someone is killing the murderer? That doesn't make much sense to me. Besides, why let them "get it over with" instead of letting them suffer for years in prison.
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Post by lildevil92 on Mar 18, 2009 16:50:48 GMT -5
^ But isn't letting them suffer in prison in some way a form of torture? You seem to be like the type who is against torture as well.
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Post by superdoglac on Mar 18, 2009 16:56:21 GMT -5
I think if someone killed another person they should pay for it, even if it's a form a torture. Killing someone is just the line I don't think anyone should cross.
Just my opinion though.
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Post by lildevil92 on Mar 18, 2009 21:02:39 GMT -5
Oh, so torture is less humane than killing someone instantly? Makes sense.
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Post by The New Zealand Dragon on Mar 18, 2009 22:32:58 GMT -5
People can live better lives in prison then you're giving it credit for and torture by making someone live in prison and torture by gas or poison are so completely different.
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Post by lildevil92 on Mar 18, 2009 22:35:41 GMT -5
Torture in prison is psychological. Torture with gas or whatever is physiological
Torture is still the same.
Oh, do you know prison life? Do you know what it is like to be in prison? I'm not exaggerating prison life.
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