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Post by The Italian Dragon on Jul 20, 2009 17:32:26 GMT -5
^ I already forgave them. After all : no Valve = No cool zombie hunting = no epic Survival rush = no epic Hunter pounces = no smoker pwnage = etc..... xD. What else can I add ? xD
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Jul 21, 2009 4:29:17 GMT -5
I forgive them too, although I wasn't into the bright colorful theme of L4D2, all I care is the game itself. And there's more for you to add.
No Valve =
1. No Half Life 2. No Counter Strike 3. No Team Fortress
Simple. And hopefully Valve stays as it should be, EA better not spend the money to keep on merging companies, that's what I see from them, when they hardly care of fans, they care for money and when they earn enough, they'll be ready to be a tyrant of the video game industries by merging smaller companies, and I hope Valve is not all that small. If Valve merges into EA, you can see what happened to the Command & Conquer franchise & even to Westwood itself. Today, the new Westwood is Petroglyph, it's even worse than their old times when their original WW founders split up.
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Post by lildevil92 on Jul 21, 2009 6:00:39 GMT -5
Why is everyone bi*ching about L4D2 being in day time? Obviously you're pretty narrow minded if you automatically assume, ITS NOT AT NIGHT, ITS NOT SCARY, because L4D was reaaaalllly scary, right?
If games follow the same, repetitive pattern, they get so redundant and boring, changing the dynamics of a game makes it more interesting, and it really makes me laugh when people think Valve 'cares' about them, they're a business, they want to make profit, not please everyone. No game company cares about the fans.
Oh, I'm not trolling, which is what everyone seems to always think when they see someone disagree with them.
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Jul 21, 2009 8:21:35 GMT -5
If you had read my previous post, I didn't troll Valve either, I was shocked to see that. After L4D2 was announced, I'm happy to see a new game coming up. But I did NOT see the boycott, that's where the problem starts.
And if you say game company only cares about themselves & the money, then what are you, you're Electronic Arts? They already begin to take fans very lightly, they accept at the first few days, later on they'll just forget about them. I know Valve will not do something like that, not even Blizzard too when it comes to their Starcraft 2 game, if they don't have the fans and don't listen to them, SC2 will still be a crappy game by then.
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Max Power
Maturing Dragon
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Posts: 2,159
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Post by Max Power on Jul 21, 2009 11:26:04 GMT -5
That L4D2 boycott is one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen.
"Waaaahhh!!!! Valve trying to make money?? What do they think they are, a business?! They only exist to serve me, a gamer, and cater to my every whim, no matter how ridiculous or absurd!!"
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Post by Krudd the Barbarian on Jul 21, 2009 13:11:31 GMT -5
No gaming company will make as much money as Blizzard
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Jul 21, 2009 15:51:58 GMT -5
That L4D2 boycott is one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen. "Waaaahhh!!!! Valve trying to make money?? What do they think they are, a business?! They only exist to serve me, a gamer, and cater to my every whim, no matter how ridiculous or absurd!!" Valve compromised themselves, they thought they can just put those ideas into place too early and just want to make the new games for the sake of money? I don't think so, it is pathetic to see the boycott, and what if that boycott does not happen, L4D2 will continue to come in but fans will just NOT buy the game because of the lack of updates on L4D1 & possibly they'll figure out saying "Valve cares only the money and not us anymore!", fans DO play a role, they are your customers too, if you just ignore their complaints or even the boycott, they will go away and will never buy your products ever again.
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Max Power
Maturing Dragon
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Got to be good lookin' 'cuz he's so hard to see.
Posts: 2,159
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Post by Max Power on Jul 22, 2009 3:28:49 GMT -5
"Fans" are a considered factor, but you don't market a game to just your hardcore fanbase. Generally a game is marketed to as wide a consumer base as possible to maximize possible sales. Left 4 Dead 2, in addition to bringing in loads of new content (five new campaigns, new zombie types, new multiplayer modes, new weapons, and more), also allows Valve a chance to get a fresh new campaign of attracting new customers.
Also consider this: The "L4D2 Boycott" on Steam has 40,000+ members. Left 4 Dead the first sold 2.5 MILLION copies by March of this year. And that's excluding sales made via Steam, and international sales figures. Also, Left 4 Dead 2 currently has TWICE the amount of preorders than what Left 4 Dead 1 had at the relative time away from release.
My point is: Fanboy rage never really affects anything. Stuff like this is just whiny little PC gamers with an overinflated sense of entitlement whining about a game that doesn't come out for six months and a product which they are in no way obligated to buy.
That said, Left 4 Dead 2 will most likely rule.
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Jul 22, 2009 8:59:16 GMT -5
I think I know why, if you read this article, www.gamepolitics.com/2008/08/29/stardock-releases-gamer039s-bill-rights-pax , Valve violated no.3 , that's when fans didn't expect much of updates from L4D1, they complain that the dev team put too much time on working L4D2 instead of L4D1. And there we are, the boycott happens as you should know that it was too early for the sequel to arrive as the L4D1 players were waiting so long for any major updates & patches, but in the end, there's none coming except the sequel itself. And don't worry, I'm not in the boycott, all that fans or hardcore players are probably involved in the boycott itself. Me, I'm a casual FPS player, all I want is the game fully completed and nearly bug-free. And when there's regular updates like an anti-virus, I can't grab them. Here's why, I'm an offline player and I don't use Steam, and the final version of Counter Strike Source I got is not from Steam, it's from a torrent. Lastly, if Valve would to ignore the boycott, fans will just keep on defacing Valve's reputation and popularity, in the end, all the games they created will end up with lesser sales & piracy rate on their games will increase. Do you like that to happen if you are one of the Valve teams and keep on ignoring the boycott & their other whinings? Think about it if you were one of the Valve people. If you just say "I'll keep ignoring and just keep selling," it's more like you never experience a real business before. If you just do whatever things you want instead of they want, then you're truly lost, that's the business world, customer satisfaction counts!
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Post by The Italian Dragon on Jul 22, 2009 9:07:33 GMT -5
I agree with what Kokusho said at the beginning. HL2 got released almost 5 years after the first and the Episodes sequels almost 4 years after, which left enough time to explore it completely and work on the sequel. But on year is a little too short to make something really cool. I'm a little afraid to find a L4D 1 clone, but I may be wrong so I'll wait until the release date and see what testers say about it. Fandom changing anything ? False. I can't remember the game but the first opus rocked butts and then the second one was kinda sucka and was almost unsold. The game company remade the third opus and tried to fix all the defaults the gamers found and then it came back to be an awesome game. So fandom changing anything ? Mhm, depens of the circumstancies. Anyways I may buy it too, like I did for L4D 1. I'll just wait for it to come out and check.
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Max Power
Maturing Dragon
Jumpin' Jack Flash
Got to be good lookin' 'cuz he's so hard to see.
Posts: 2,159
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Post by Max Power on Jul 22, 2009 10:53:43 GMT -5
Uh, Kokusho... You do realize that that "Gamer's Bill of Rights" is in no way any kind of official document or decree of so-called "gamers", right?
I really don't understand this boycott at all. People complain when Valve takes five years to release a new game. Then Valve takes only a year to release a new game and...people complain. You can't win with these people.
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Jul 22, 2009 11:30:33 GMT -5
Yes, that bill is not kind of any documents of some sort or a decree given by the law, but that was created to encourage game companies to follow them in order their products to be successful without suffering many negativity, especially piracy. If you don't follow the bill, expecting flames & negative feedbacks, or worse, increased piracy rates in their games. Here's the difference, in the old times when games has no limited installation or serial keys, piracy rates are very low because it can be acquired publicly, BUT when those anti-piracy things come in, piracy rate increases, especially SPORE.
And here's why, Left 4 Dead 1 is a brand new game introduced after completing Day of Defeat Source. And Left 4 Dead 2 is instantly created because the dev team has tons of ideas instantly popped out from their minds, if you read their game reviews & interviews, then you get the idea of how it happened. That's why it took at least a year to finally get it done, as though it's like an expansion pack. A brand new game will take at least more than that, like 2 years or so, for Valve, it could take 3 to 5.
AND remember, boycott can also mean like protest, imagine if you create Cartoon A, and when fans love it, they expect a Season 2 once Season 1 is done, and when you create Cartoon B instead, Cartoon A fans will protest at your doorstep and demand more new seasons for Cartoon A rather than looking into B (They will not move on until the right time comes). That's one of the routes you see in businesses, you may not understand, but when you experience it yourself, you'll see the results for real. I've gone through it already.
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Post by Krudd the Barbarian on Jul 22, 2009 12:22:27 GMT -5
I wonder how much money Valve makes
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Post by The Italian Dragon on Jul 22, 2009 16:31:11 GMT -5
Certanly millions. The Orange Box costs around 50 euros ( it's 55 $ )and thousands of copies has been sold. imagine with all the 20 $ copies of CS:S, DoD:S, CS,DoD, HL, HL2,HL2 Ep1, HL2 Ep2 , each one of these sold around the same price of the Orange Box. So they make really a bunch of money.
And Kokusho, the last part of your hypothese really reminds me what's happening with Disney about ADJL.
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Jul 23, 2009 4:29:07 GMT -5
Well, it's true, but cartoons don't run the same as games. Games can have sequels while cartoons are hard to get sequels except just new seasons. Cartoons getting a sequel is very rare except Rugrats & then All Grown Up.
And don't worry, everyone, Valve made that mistake and they admit it was wrong, so they should not done it again, it doesn't matter if it's the money they want, it's their popularity & reputation they put on the line. IF they make that mistake again for another game, let's say Left 4 Dead 3 or Half Life 3, a year after its release again without any major updates given to L4D2, then Valve is on a knife edge.
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