SoCalDrag
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Post by SoCalDrag on Nov 14, 2010 1:59:08 GMT -5
Lately, there has been a LOT of news regarding Obama's travels in countries such as India, Indonesia, and South Korea... and it seems as if the U.S. is losing its face among the more developed countries( and even developing nations) on a world-wide scale. China and Brazil took their time to lecture the U.S. on its economic policies... and it looks as if the U.S. is the cause of the 2008-? Recession. This "cause" for blame is ( not surprisingly) not only the reason for increased loss in power. China, now growing at 9.8% a year with a government surplus of US$2 trillion, now owns 20% of the U.S.'s debt. America, with its slow rate of progress and ineffective administration, spends more and more each day, and it's time for them to figure out another solution other than Keynesian policies. The big question is... now that the problem is identified, what other solutions are there? And if the problem is just temporary, what did the U.S. do wrong? And ultimately, will the U.S. ever regain it's status of world power?
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Post by Bigboyjulzz on Nov 14, 2010 3:26:10 GMT -5
obama whent to asia
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Blaise Zebrataur
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Post by Blaise Zebrataur on Nov 14, 2010 5:02:11 GMT -5
Personally...I think the world is just going all to pieces.I mean no offense or anything,but people are trying to "go green" to save the world..to me it seems it is too late to save the world after all of these years.And all people can do in the White House is so much as it is not all one person's fault if a law fails or if we are in a recession or whatever.
Remember,Obama can only do some much as president just like everyone before him.I am not defending him,just stating facts as I see it.
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
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Post by Clone on Nov 14, 2010 7:39:16 GMT -5
frankly, the depression of 2008 was caused by a bad policy on home loans that occurred in the 90's. it collapsed about 10 years later and everythign took a nose dive. (there you go, identified, also what doesn't help is all the people living out side of there means) that home loan policy allowed people with parc credit to get a loan on just about ANY home, so people were buying stuff many times out side of there budget. (hay look the same reason why the original great depression occurred!)
as of to the loss of influence i don't see it waning much as we still governing over a lot of disputes. however loosing dominance when the rest of the world finally catches up to us is just what happens. the USA's been riding on an economic push from WWII when we were the only major country that was actually still intact. now that the rest of the worlds rebuilt and has caught up in many ways were going back to just one of the many. (china's still got a lot to go though)
Tobias, yay! a person that's smart and realizes that Obama cant fix everything! to bad we cant pull a "new Deal" styled recession plan. first we don't have ANY money (thank you presidents that spend parc loads when nothings wrong) and congress would never let those kind of things fly now a days (****ing worthless politicians)
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Blaise Zebrataur
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Post by Blaise Zebrataur on Nov 14, 2010 13:33:07 GMT -5
Tobias, yay! a person that's smart and realizes that Obama cant fix everything! to bad we cant pull a "new Deal" styled recession plan. first we don't have ANY money (thank you presidents that spend parc loads when nothings wrong) and congress would never let those kind of things fly now a days (****ing worthless politicians) Hahahah thanks buddy. And well it IS the truth.You can't blame everything on one person because its not all his fault.Once your president you can only do so much because you have congress and stuff beneath you that also runs the country with him.Just like you can't blame Obama on all of this is just like you can't blame George Bush all the way back to George Washington if stuff failed or such.
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Post by The Italian Dragon on Nov 14, 2010 19:48:42 GMT -5
I agree with Tobias as well but well I'm aware that obama isn't God or something. Also I've noticed too that the world seems to be collapsing in a billion of pieces. I doubt though that USA have a dropping in their range of influence.
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
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Post by Clone on Nov 15, 2010 0:52:33 GMT -5
I'm aware that obama isn't God or something. well.. you haven't seen about 50% of the American population that were praying to him every day 3 times a day in the direction of Washington DC and killing those that disagreed saying that it was because everyone else was racist. ok, on a not so bad note. the sad fact is that Congress is out to simply better them selves. (they get to set there own pay checks! they get payed more than the president!) we will never get any where unless we can find some way to correct it. however, it appears that the majority of America is either easy to persuade or any one crazy enough to take up a political positions are just out to better them selves. (parc its both) i'm such a (enter word seeing as my minds blank), i'm not helping any... if anything, if we could stop the crazy mind set the politicians have of "we must screw the other side at every chance" we may get some where. (or perhaps get a 3rd party with some weight that ways the 3 teared government model works again like the founders intended)
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SoCalDrag
Jake's friend
港鐵 - Caring for Life's Journeys, and best way to travel in HK
Posts: 89
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Post by SoCalDrag on Nov 15, 2010 2:33:06 GMT -5
In light of the possibility of a third party, the U.S. may have one in midst of it already... the Tea Party. They are actually posing as threats to both the Republicans and the Democrats... and with the tax raises in the Obama administration, it just might seem like Sarah Palin's "you betcha" policies might appeal to an increasing number of Americans.
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Blaise Zebrataur
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Post by Blaise Zebrataur on Nov 15, 2010 4:09:40 GMT -5
Basically everyone that runs for President say they will do this and do that to make the country better.But when they get there they can only do so much and people will then say "Oh its his fault we are in a recession." People can only do so much in their lives just like when you are President.You can try and do stuff right and just how you want to,but there will be people around you that will try and change it to their liking and then people will say "Oh you failed us" or "You lied when you got into The White House" That is why I try to stay far away from this stuff,but I am not afraid to comment on it if and when I can,just to speak my own view on it. PS: I am also glad to have Clone and Italian agree with me on some of this.Its nice to know some people agree
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Post by Atecom on Nov 21, 2010 7:03:52 GMT -5
Yeah America has lost a fair bit of its influence, but It certainly won't drop behind anytime soon. Although China has high economic growth, it has a vested interest in ensuring the US economy doesn't collapse. In my opinion we are past the days where there will be a single society which is the superpower, instead due to the effectiveness of communication, we will have half the world with shared power (richer parts of Asia, the middle East and the west) and another half thats far behind (Africa).
As for the cause of Americas loss of influence, there are a lot of complex factors. Same with the GFC. If you ask a democrat what caused the GFC, They will mention George W Bush, ask a Republican, they will say Bill Clinton. Both would be correct to a certain degree, but the cause of the GFC, which is attributed to the collapse of the Housing bubble, goes far beyond GWB's Debt increases and Bill Clinton's Sub Prime Lending Policies. In reality the cause is an economic system thats become so diluted and complex that its become just about impossible to trace all the debts and revenue of everything in the system. Debts are sold, which are then watered down by various companies, etc.. Its no longer a simple means of you owe $5000 anymore, its just about impossible to trace how much everyone owes. Heck, banks and industries can even go into debts with themselves. So it goes well beyond GWB or Clinton, but to housing policies, both governmental and non governmental which date back to the 70s. (Btw while yes a complex economic system did contribute to the great depression, its causes were quite different. Stock prices became so high, that people panicked and rushed to sell all at once which collapsed the stock US stock market, but thats for another thread).
Now that the GFC hit however, the effort of rebuilding is in Obamas hands. He has been very slow with improvement on the jobless rate, and that will effect him negatively. He has tried economic stimulus packages, which did not work very well (In contrast they worked extremely well in Australia so Keynesian economics when applied well, just like any other solid economic model can work).
Maybe its just because the people of America in General are more Conservative than over here? Not sure, but if Obamas gonna get another term, he does need to fix some things. Most of the people I talk to in America are progressive and liberals, So they thought the healthcare plan was a step in the right direction, however most Liberals don't think it goes nearly far enough, and most conservatives are against it. (I do wish American conservatives would give social ideas a bit more of a chance, though it really can't be forced upon them, cause if they people don't want it, they can make sure it doesn't work).
As for the tea party, yeah but no, the type of grassroots democracy they have been advocating might have been fine for the couple of million people who came into power when the founding fathers first built the country, America now is a much bigger country than it was back then, and has been the world super power since the 40s. While I don't necessarily agree with things like Obama Suing the Arizona government over their Illegal immigration policy, I feel many of the powers the tea part advocates removing from the federal governments hands should indeed remain in the federal governments hands. If the even further fringes of the tea party get their way, theres a chance they could end up as the next Somalia.
And back to the America/China relationship, I saw a post on the JREF forum a few months ago that I really liked. it was something along the lines of "If America does decide to invade Iran, they may as well get China to do it. China will be paying for it after all."
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Nov 21, 2010 13:32:11 GMT -5
I'm not very sure of it most of the time. But as for today's time, most of it because of not just the recession but as well as the number of jobless. We have issues of our own in America, according to Donald Trump, his main suspects he saw are : 1. China (America always receive their stuff and paying little to no tax) 2. OPEC (For setting up the oil prices and unstable according to US's conditions) 3. George Bush's poor reign, his most criticism was the last time he wasted his time invades Iraq, a country that has nothing to do with September 11. He should invade Pakistan instead, even today, I don't hear lots of news based on Osama & Pakistan itself. Since I know Donald Trump for quite some time, I personally wish he would be president for 2012. To get US back to its former glory, he must give the jobless jobs. With China being still the economy #1, US is getting more laughable, so if you want to buy a product from China (but with quality problems), that's great, but Donald will charge a 25% tax on it, in this way, you'll be re-focus to buy local US products include the companies will now create jobs locally instead of internationally. video.foxnews.com/v/4402436/donald-trump-on-the-record-part-1video.foxnews.com/v/4405057/donald-trump-on-the-record-part-2/www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump?v=app_2392950137#!/DonaldTrump?v=wall (Yes, he has a Facebook account too) It maybe a nuisance to see a big billionaire like him to be as president, he did give advices on how to fix the economy when Obama was the winner instead of his chosen McCain. But too bad, Obama still could not fix the mess and the Donald's advices were not being executed. So if somebody needs to fix all that mess, instead of giving it through talks & interviews, he has to do it instead. So far, what are your opinions if Donald Trump would be president? I got the feeling the US economy needs to be fixed big time and the war has to be placed aside. It is laughable and sometimes stupid, but think about it if you want US to be back to its former glory. And don't forget that he'll be a Republican candidate, so don't worry, this is not going to be another George Bush era again.
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
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Post by Clone on Nov 21, 2010 23:38:23 GMT -5
from the stand point of which i stand, i agree that Keynesian economics could work however all the stimulus jobs that have been created in Obama's process (attest the ones i'm Michigan) have been temporary jobs that vanish once completed. such as re-serficing the roads, or adding worthless sins...
just to toss this in simply because my parents are both vary Republican... mostly what they have been citing about what they don't like about the new healthcare bill is that its killing off jobs, it provides less coverage than there current one, and it cost more than there current one. mostly what they get after is that they love the idea of a standardized healthcare system however the current plan will only suffice for a short period of time before it goes bottom side up like the social security system. (which will go bottom up with in the next 20 years)
i think its a right step in the right direction but highly agree that we need to get this funding problem worked out for both things. i really hate paying money in to a system that i will never see benefit from.
---------------------------------------------------- just a last note, Michigan's trying out a new approach to climbing out of the recession entirely focused around funding start up company's. will be interesting to see if this works out well because if so we may have just found a good method for the rest of the country. (seeing as we have the highest unemployment rate in America)
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Nov 22, 2010 0:32:49 GMT -5
Healthcare do not generate income as the Donald said, jobs is all what it counts.
But since Obama will still be president until 2012, I just hope someone else will take his place. What do you think if the Donald would be president. When I read today's The Star article in my local newspaper, they mentioned about China is manipulating its currency and it really hurts the US dollar. So far, don't you agree just like Trump said so?
Honestly I have to agree with him, if there are so many stuff coming in all the way from China, you should tax them with 25%, in this way, American companies will create jobs locally as said in the Fox News video. I'm not sure how this Keynesian economics works, but I would prefer the Donald's way of taxing 25% on all China-imported products. In this way, jobs will be created and the people will know that they don't like to pay that huge tax and then rather buy their own local products.
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SoCalDrag
Jake's friend
港鐵 - Caring for Life's Journeys, and best way to travel in HK
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Post by SoCalDrag on Nov 22, 2010 0:40:30 GMT -5
Aha, the only problem with taxing imported goods is that it raise the price of DOMESTIC goods at home as well. Even though tariffs may cause the price of imported goods to rise above the domestic goods, consumers will end up paying more. Why? Say that I am from China and I import rice to the United States at $3 per pound. The United States produces rice at say, $4 per pound. If the US imposes a tariff that raises the price of imported rice to $5, the domestic producers will take this opportunity to raise domestic prices by say, $0.5. Yes, the domestic price is still cheaper than the imported price, but the OVERALL higher price hurts the economy. That is why most economists oppose the implementation of foreign goods.
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
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Post by Clone on Nov 22, 2010 5:53:01 GMT -5
have you or any one in the government ever thought about maybe making tariffs that simply raise the price of imported goods to the same price of domestic goods?
(knowing my luck its been tried but then the imported goods just got cheaper....)
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