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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on May 13, 2012 4:56:36 GMT -5
If they don't change that decision, looks like Win8 will be another Vista, not just in terms of some functions like the IE only option, but Metro UI as well since it's not everybody's taste and they can classify that as one of the "failures". When IE is getting less used and more of us users turn to competitor browsers, I think they're really jealous and doesn't care and even force us to love Metro if they want us to use competitor browsers.
Well, my theory worked that I predicted after Bill Gates no longer work as CEO, things will go down. Same as America's economy went down too after Reagan died.
Run off with more profit? Well, they did struggle pretty bad, I've read tons of news when it comes to Samsung and they do tons of work for Android & its post-release support. Windows Phone? Almost none at all! Nokia also don't have big hopes on their Lumia series either, some investors also became angry when Nokia had a big dream to turn things around but it's not, in the end, one of them tend to sue Nokia for false hope. Looks like Nokia not only had a big dream shattered, and the other being thinking overconfident and over-positive thinking, in the end, crash and burn! Why can't they invest in Android, or in some people's cases but not me, MeeGo.
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on May 19, 2012 7:21:18 GMT -5
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
That one dragon with no name
Posts: 2,243
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Post by Clone on May 19, 2012 21:39:57 GMT -5
I'm actually glad they finally got around to some UI styling for the desktop. was rather disjointed before. (even if its not good, at least they are thinking about consistency) hopefully its just a bit of icon switching and color plate tweaking. however if they have completely removed the code for transparency, then their is a bit of a problem form me as i enjoyed it. (however that would reduce the graphics load and save power. hum...) nothing that a .theme file shouldn't be able to fix if people truly want it different. Now i will say, they should of brought in the Zune UI designers as this looks so much better and like it was modeled after the zune application. its clean to the point, places info up front, and stylish. blog.gsmarena.com/this-is-what-windows-8-on-desktop-should-have-looked-like/thought the guys at EA were voted worst anything in existence? now seriously, i don't get your odd hatred of Windows Phone 7. (is it simply because its different?)
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on May 21, 2012 7:50:21 GMT -5
It's simple as like any graphic designer critics would say (Not all, it's 50-50), it's Metro that kills me. Unless once released, I'm sure there's a hardcore designer will get a programmer to alter the whole thing from scratch and remove Metro completely and replace into either more traditional or into somewhat more Mobile style just like Symbian, Bada, iOS, Android, etc.. All icons are icons and never wrap them into 4 pointed polygons. But hey, be different like this one and when half of the people hates Metro, in the end, it failed to acquire much customers and that's how Ballmer became the worst CEO, one of them is failed creativity and innovation to stand out the whole company. Like one of my friends told me, I love Windows on PC but I hate Windows on Mobile.
But if I want a proper Windows 8, I'll take that Zune design instead. Yes, I thought EA is still the worst, but we don't know much about them in latest news these days, BUT I remember some articles said they're the worst game companies ever though, so small companies should avoid that giant, it'll turn their good games into crap, look what happened to Plants VS Zombies, the original game stayed nicely without being tainted by the demonic hands of EA, but so far, nothing came out from that ever since PopCap been brought out. We should be glad that Zynga refused the offer in the past.
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
That one dragon with no name
Posts: 2,243
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Post by Clone on May 22, 2012 23:37:45 GMT -5
yeah, metro is kind of grinding if your not in to modernist design. i do feel though its fine on a mobile platform (you know why i feel its a better UI) but obviously not everyone's in to simplistic design, and its over cumbersome on any platform where touch isn't the primary mode of interaction. now what i don't get is everyone's statements of "failed creativity and innovation". this is the most creativity and in some forms innovation that the windows team have spit out in years. the problem isn't that it isn't innovative its that its being chosen as a desktop UI.
i'm really tempted to see what of that UI i linked off to could perhaps get turned in to a windows mod. i know half of it could never make it as it would require far to much code reworking, but the other half would still give it the correct feel.
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on May 23, 2012 1:05:39 GMT -5
Function maybe important, but it's also important to appeal people in terms of visuals, if you go simplicity, don't go over-simplicity, otherwise, people will just call "Meh, this is BORING!!", "Cheapskate", "This idea will never sell!", etc.. I've seen how the graphic design industry works, too simple design and then people will just move to the slightly more expensive product, because it's simple, when you spend too little, they're afraid that your product may not be good as well. The more expensive, the higher quality is. You have your perspective and I have mine. EDIT : www.techradar.com/news/computing/steve-ballmer-windows-8-is-the-most-important-thing-weve-done-1081615Really? Will be the most important thing ever? We consumers are getting smarter from time to time. There will be low purchases at first, if it's going to be the next Vista as according to professionals, then you can just screw it for your failure (Especially the Metro UI, only IE and no other browsers, etc..). Ballmer, listen to this below : "Overconfidence makes you careless." -- Captain Price, Modern Warfare 3
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
That one dragon with no name
Posts: 2,243
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Post by Clone on May 26, 2012 13:30:05 GMT -5
yeah, i do agree that they are definitely going far to simple for windows 8. hell they seem to not care about throwing out function in order to conform to their design points... Microsoft was finally on to a UI design that was both elegant and sleek when they launched windows 7, a bit of tweaking and it could of been beautiful and to the point. however sense we've well seen what they are doing, they have tossed that completely out in favor of attempting to be Picasso...
Im taking a guess this sentence makes more sense when translated to some other language "too simple design and then people will just move to the slightly more expensive product, because it's simple,"
also that public tenancy of "it has to be expensive to be good" annoys me. just look at Apple vs Microsoft vs Google VS Linux on OS's.
Apple = Most Expensive, least functionality. (crashes/locks up more than windows...) Microsoft = middle man in expenses, good level of functionality Google = cheep scape of expenses, little functionality. (no one uses it so i don't know about crash rate) Linux = Free, ridiculous functionality (if it crashed, its your own damn fault)
(same thing occurs with hardware, cars, you name it it happens. the most expensive isn't all ways the best and commonly its only marginally better)
now thats just getting over confident... however i have a nagging suspicion similar words were ushered for windows Vista and XP before launch. (both had parcty reviews when at launch too... at least XP recovered)
and lol, MW3 actually had something of memorable quality?
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on May 27, 2012 3:21:18 GMT -5
I thought Apple Mac is more sophisticated, true, they crash more often and when you try to repair, DIY is almost impossible for average joes and repairs are never cheap. Even iOS apps also crash a lot more than the Android counterpart (even if included the whole fragmentation problem)
Anyway, the quotes I got are mostly based on what I can remember, similar to C&C Generals, I still got the old ones like "Now you see me, now you're dead.", "It's quiet out there, general. You know what quiet means, right? BOOM!", ETC.....
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Aug 7, 2012 1:28:58 GMT -5
I don't know about you, Clone. If you're still alive in here or the forum is pretty much dead. Well, it's almost official. We're forced to deal with Metro, including the new Microsoft Office that also have to deal with that UI problem. Wow, Microsoft really became a tyrant! A once good guy who provided Windows for us against the evil Apple & their Mac for being too expensive, and now gone rogue to become possibly even more evil when it comes to choices that we're stuck to Win 7. www.engadget.com/2012/08/06/windows-8-may-not-let-you-boot-to-the-desktop/Anyway, let's wait and see if this is not true in the final release and gets it to be on sale. Well, if that's the case to be true in the end, say hello to, VISTA 2.0.
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
That one dragon with no name
Posts: 2,243
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Post by Clone on Aug 15, 2012 12:19:58 GMT -5
well that roomers been running about for some time, so i wouldn't be to surprised if it is indeed true. (and if it is, im sticking to Windows 7) the way i use a computer is rather hindered when metro is required. its annoying to use as a start menu when you regularly use MANY programs. not to mention all the metro apps ive ever used were rather parcty. seresusly the mail app cant even mark messages as spam! (hell you cant use it effectively side by side. or have one email open and typing in another) now do i like it that i can easily set a program to use 1/4th the screen (makes it nice for having a update app just sitting there), yes. however there's little more its useful for... windows XP, Vista and 7 could display two windows side by side with keyboard commands (and mouse in 7) but i cant do this in 8. hum... oh, did i mention metro looks ridiculous on a 26" monitor? 1 tile is around 1.5 inches tall. LOL i get why MS is doing what they are doing. they are trying to force people over to a new UI like they did with Desktop from DOS. (you can still run DOS but its an "app" now instead of your work environment) i guess it would only be proper for me to do a pros and cons break down of my experience with the OS. Pros: - faster boot (marginally, i'm the man that made vista boot in under 30 seconds with mechanical hard drives after all)
- better task manager (god i love the new one)
- better default resource usage than 7 and Vista (worse than my version of 7 and vista though)
- built in AV system (not a bad one too)
- native application store / finder (less likely people will install crap ware)
- slightly faster in games (i'm measuring around a 2 to 5% frame rate increase)
- Native Xbox Live integration
Metro UI (applications can display usfull information with out being launched)
Cons: - slower shutdown (slower over all and takes longer to activate)
- slower to launch everything.
- Metro Apps are slow to launch
- native application store (3rd part devs that refuse to pay MS to get their applications in the store will loos market share)
- can not run metro apps with desktop applications effectively
- can not run metro apps with metro apps effectively (its 1 at a time or barely 2, never more)
- can no longer glance at open applications (features been around sense Windows vista and 7)
- not simple to tell what applications are open (even my apple friends complain that its not easy to tell whats open, wait until they see how metro tells you that an app is open! it doesn't!)
- more clicks to do everything except launch applications. (3 to just look at WiFi signal)
- Native Xbox Live integration (MS may start to lock out 3rd party devs)
- Metro UI (unnecessary clutter and overall clunky UI for mice and keyboard users, application notifications don't always function [steam and xfire], 100% of all applications i have installed don't update their tile [this includes MS demo applications])
- non consistent UI (this was a problem of Vista and its back again in 8. some things will be metro while others will be windows 8 and some windows 7. UI consistency is important and something this OS lacks in the CP version)
Average user: - I can safely say that for the average PC user, this OS will be better for them in average usage snerios. i'm talking the people that see the desktop as only in the way of getting to face book or opening word/email. these people are generally going to be happy on limited hardware and software platforms.
Pro-sumer: - this section is the one that will have the hardest time deciding if windows 8 is right for them or not. this category falls under consumers that generally work in multiple programs at once and have fairly good computers to begin with. these people will be bugged at the quirks of windows 8's Metro UI's handling of applications and windows but will appreciate that the OS is less hardware intrusive and has aces to a wider variety of programs.
Professional: - these guys plane and simple wont like windows 8's Metro UI. they are well ingrained in a specific work flow and have typically customized their windows install to something more beneficial to it. the introduction of metro and its handling of multiple windows will drive them nuts.
Business: - depending on the business they may find windows 8 more appealing or less appealing than windows 7. those that have workers who do not work with custom programs and or in multiple at once will not like Windows 8. those that don't will like that windows 8 removes the extravagance of a native desktop UI in favor of pushing their workers directly to their applications and that it handily limits the number of simultaneously open applications due to its handling of windows. (they will hat it though that they cant glance at the task bar to see if the worker is hiding anything though)
i would qualify my self as between pro-sumer and professional. i do work within windows for my job, education and entertainment and have heavily customized my installations. i have a specific workflow that i expect to be able to maintain when working and am easily frustrated by windows 8's in ability to run multiple programs nicely.
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Aug 19, 2012 6:54:03 GMT -5
Wow, Win8 has so many cons when you said that. Yeap, just like Gabe from Valve also said the same thing, Win8 is only keeping them out. EA goes with Microsoft, I don't have high hopes about it since we know EA today is already disgraceful as they really are.
Average user wise, they probably won't feel much of a thing. But a pro-sumer like me & you will feel the problem. Professionals also find it problematic since they also come out with mixed reviews, I don't care for the so called "positive" reviews that many of them wrote including Wikipedia, I just say it's mixed. If they want something better, at least don't make the squares super flat! iOS & Android, old Symbian, etc.. have better UIs than Metro anyways. As for the business users, BIG FAT ZERO! Many of them are already used to the simple UI before since the dawn of Win95 all the way to Win7, and now want to change to pure Metro at Win8, you're pretty stupid, Mike, we're ditching you in favor to stick with your old Win7.
All in all, if Apple wants to have an opponent for the digital wars, it's no longer PC VS Mac (or Microsoft VS Apple war is already over since the launch of Win8 as its first prototype and the introduction to Metro), but now Android VS iOS. Speaking of today, Samsung VS Apple is wrapping up, but I got bad predictions as we got a moronic Judge Koh who is biased towards Apple instead of Judge Posner who has a better common sense than her. The juries she brought in are non-bias whereas she's the only one who is bias, I'm sure one day the public is going to haunt her, no matter what. I prefer Judge Posner instead over her.
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
That one dragon with no name
Posts: 2,243
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Post by Clone on Aug 23, 2012 1:31:51 GMT -5
whats one thing i will say is interesting looking at my pros and cons list now that its no longer at the tip of my tung. notice the pros are of completely different category than its cons? the cons are almost all UI related while the pros are all performance related. all of the pros of this OS would be wonderful for an update (say SP2 for 7) however requiring that one takes on that current cons list for the pros is rather concerning.
i will add one category though. for casual to intermediate gamers, windows 8 shouldn't be a bother. the majority of gamers run games in complete full screen mode and as such the UI issues of Metro would be non existent. however, if your like me and if the game doesn't run in border-less windowed mode then you hack it in, then you will be in pain. great pain...
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
That one dragon with no name
Posts: 2,243
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Post by Clone on Aug 30, 2012 13:38:34 GMT -5
Its nicely confirmed Microsoft is taking a double barreled shotgun, placing it in its mouth, and pulling both triers. www.tomshardware.com/news/Microsoft-Windows-Windows-8-Metro-Start-Button-hack,15831.html "Microsoft was removing code to prevent well-known UI hacks that worked with Consumer Preview from working with the Release Preview of Windows 8" (there goes my fixes) "And those with hopes that Microsoft would allow businesses, at least, to boot directly to the desktop should prepare for disappointment," he added. "That feature not only isn't happening, it's being removed from Windows Server 12 (Windows 8's stable mate) as well." (there goes my supposed saving grace for the OS) I really do hate seeing my favorite general computing platform commit suicide. vista was troublesome but that was simply a performance thing (and perception) that was worked out by the time the OS was a year old. windows 8 is literally trying to make its self irreverent to business though. do they really expect to continue to dominate the home computer world if people are using Apple OS and Linux at work? the reason why apple lost its home market was because businesses were using windows. as such home users were familiar with it so when buying their own computer they bought the same OS they used daily at work.
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Post by Kokusho the Evening Star on Sept 5, 2012 22:38:54 GMT -5
Like I really said, it's Vista 2.0 But don't worry, there's good news recently from Engadget. www.engadget.com/2012/09/05/thinix-retroui-lets-windows-8-users-step-off-the-metro/#continuedwww.thinix.com/default.aspYEEHAA! In your face, Microsoft! Hopefully you put Thinix to the test and report. Yes, sure, Mac may look indestructible but doesn't mean it's invincible. Moreover that is still not practical when it comes to its overpriced computers. Linux on the other hand, may look great but software is the main backbone for many computer users, so you can't expect businesses to use it either. Anyway, I'm sticking with Windows 7, but with the new Thinix come into play, hope you put it to the test and see how it goes. Even if it works, I rather not upgrade my current laptop or a future desktop to Win 8 either, I find it not really worth it when Metro UI Win 8 dubbed Vista 2.0 is a huge insult to many Windows fans. Got a PM for you.
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Clone
Maturing Dragon
That one dragon with no name
Posts: 2,243
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Post by Clone on Sept 9, 2012 17:55:16 GMT -5
Retro UI is pretty lame from the looks of it. I don't see any start button. Seems to me like it’s just launching the desktop app at launch. (Something a simple script could do)
Mac was one of the dominant personal computers in the 80's and 90's because it was one of the best options in usability and had a price tag that was still manageable (at one point it was the cheap one too). While Mac's were rather overpriced during the XP and Vista era, their prices have been fairly reasonable lately given the hardware and construction. To find a windows laptop with similar high quality built will only be in the range of 100$ less.
Not to mention the 27" 800$ IPS monitor I’ve been eying lately still can’t beat the resolution of the retina mac book. (Granted I could by 3 of these displays for 1 retina mac...)
On my final note, windows applications have been capable of running in a Linux environment for years. Not to mention, eventually companies will have to upgrade simply due to hardware failure over time. This same situation that happened back when DOS was on its way out and GUI's were the new thing. company's clinged on to their DOS systems for as long as they could but once enough broke, they migrated to whoever was the cheapest while still being usable (and offering some backwards compatibility) for what they needed. At the time it was Windows and not Apple. (Linux wasn't invented yet) but now that Linux is around and it’s had 10 years of development, Linux is in its prime time for being adopted as a general OS or Business OS. Most IT personnel are already familiar with it and most internet/internal servers run Linux. So it’s not like it’s completely foreign and it already has a built in base of geeks and software. (Some of which you might be using currently, as a lot of its been ported to windows)
Some other notes, when the DOS Empire ended, there were a lot of software companies that vanished. So if I were a dev, I would be really scared right now.
and i will take you up on the move to email. this place is literally dead.
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